Western comics and Indian audience

[Himdeep]

Almost everybody seems to be right in their opinions. There is no right or wrong answer. These days Indian (koff..koff.. Raj comics) is suffering from the fact that there is more non-stop, over the edge, non-sense action. For eg. (I know a lot of Super Commando Dhruv and Nagraj fans are going to be angry but hey that's my opinion), in old times Nagraj used to be on world tour fighting world terrorism. It was a unique concept but later on he was grounded in Mahanagar with a mild mannered alter ego with glasses and straight hair no less. (Superman, Anyone...). He always has his hands full fighting magical snake creatures. Introduction of Nagpasha, Bharti, Vedacharya, Dev Kaljayi and his real past was an interesting concept but it was milked to death. We had some good stories though. It also became more and more supernatural in flavour with no real character development. It looked like Nagraj got up in the morning, took his breakfast, went to take stroll in the town, fought super criminals and came back home in the waiting arms of Bharti. (poor Visarpi....Oh wait she had a lot of half-naked muscular men to look at..so, it isn't all that bad). Its good that now they have returned to the original concept of Nagraj fighting world terrorism.

Super Commando Dhruv: Where should I start. Some of his early comics were best comics ever written. His stories were on the level of some of the finest of what Western comics (DC, Marvel,Image, Virgin) or Phantom, Mandrake had to offer both in terms of story and artwork. After Jolly Sinha took over both Nagraj and Dhruv, things started going bad (although the decline in quality was already starting to creep up). Not only we have too many team-ups (note to editor: once in a while team-up is good but too much teaming up makes the audience to lose interest) but now we have all the super powered heroes (especially Nagraj) relying on Dhruv's brains to get out of sticky situations. This way all the heroes lose their credibility. When Dhruv is around everybody stops using their brains altogether. It is so obvious that Nagraj is so much more powerful than Dhruv but who wins whenever they have conflict. It is Dhruv (always). Looks like Anupam Sinha or Jolly Sinha is taking revenge for Nagraj and Bugaku where Dhruv's ass was thoroughly kicked by Thodanda/Miss Killer's Lackeys. Now he dodges rain of bullets and escapes situations in most inescapable situations. Come on he is human and every human has a upper limit. Get him beaten at least sometimes. Batman is so smart but he gets outsmarted and beaten. That is realistic (like in old comics Dhruv used to be beaten and outsmarted. Yes, he has gained experience but seriously..That is just too much).

Parmanu, Fighter Toads and Gamraj: I never liked their characters. Parmanu is Atom wannabe, Fighter Toads is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles wannabe and Gamraj (although original) is just plain boring.

Bhokal: Originally, Bhokal was He-Man wannabe, Shutan was Mandrake, Atikrur was Lothar, Turin was Teela and Fuchang was cross between Skeletor and Hordak. But luckily, they changed the concept and made their own mark.

Ashwaraj and Gojo: They were just not interesting enough.

Tilismdev: I found him pretty unique and interesting. I still don't understand why his stories aren't published instead of Gamraj (Yuck)

Thrill, Horror, Suspence: I always loved them. Some of their stories are even better than western horror classics especially the old ones.

Super Indian: Worst character ever made (even worse than gamraj)

Doga: (Indian Version of Punisher) He is pretty good though. There is a lot of character development.

Kobi/Bheriya: They are pretty good and very funny. It did become ridiculous in between but they are back on track.

Inspector Steel: Many people feel, he is a copy of Robocop. Well not exactly. There was a charcter in DC or marvel by the same same and same looks even who I think was a copy of Robocop.

Yoddha: Slight resemblance to Conan the Barbarian but overall a totally different take.

Artwork on Indian comics - While some are world standard, most of them are sub-par level.

It is quite obvious to me that there is a demand and market for Western comics and Characters (as all comics and characters aren't that good). Indian people are becoming increasingly westernised and I see no reason for us not to understand them. Some comics and characterisation cut across borders while others give us an idea about other culture and their thinking in general.

Also, competition will make you better and try innovating with new story ideas and change in direction.

[ancient.orc@gmail.com]

It looked like Nagraj got up in the morning, took his breakfast, went to take stroll in the town, fought super criminals and came back home in the waiting arms of Bharti. (poor Visarpi.

That was really hilarious..............




So Moral of the story is .....stick to originality and old is gold......hmm...i think everyone has talked about same thing and yet RC had to answer all this question......i wonder why they need to look up to western comics & fiction for inspiration when we have a pile of our own stories or is it the we don't have faith on our own creation? ......I think we need a serious research work on every character and bring them to reality not to make them comical(what usually happens in a comic book) but i know its very hard to do that but the solution is also lies in our old stories creators, In my suggestion RC now should take stories into a very serious matter and treat its comic version like a novel....i Appreciate their "Nagayan" series because it was there first attempt of this kind but this time not in a Rs.100 version or story within 8 parts, A Rs.20 or Rs.30 is fine for pocket and story within more than 20 parts will be long enough for us to keep busy because in every new story we have first make up our mind that "where this story fits in timeline?" or we have to get intoduced with new characters and we have to make up our mind to accept those character's and this happens all the time in every month Issue but if we have a continuity series like "Harry potter" novels which is more than 7 years for sake of 7 parts so that will be good but unlike novels, comics has a good side that we don't have to wait years for the next part of issue or we don't have to pay more than Rs.500 for that issue, we have to just wait for 1 month and have to pay Rs. 30 to 40 for 40 pages of story feed for our hunger and if that story has a good continuity then its a Heaven and worth to wait.....right now i am looking for some good decision from RC to change this comic trend and WE ARE WITH YOU ALWAYS.

[amitabhkar_nit]

Hi Himdeep. I read your post, rather I should say it an article on today's comics trend. It is pretty nice and say whole story of comics stories. I liked your post very much. I would like to see more posts from you

[Himdeep]

Thanx amitabhkar_nit for your kind and appreciative words and I am happy that my article is bit informative as well as little hilarious. By no means I am trying to degrade Raj comics though. Hell, I was one of the very few guys in my area (in 1988) who actually read Raj Comics. that time Diamond comics was far ahead. But we all know who is ahead at this point of time. The main ingrediant in good comics is well thought story, good characterization, and nice artwork. It need not be computerized or glossy. I'll pick old Anupam Sinha's artwork over any new artwork (be it be western or Eastern comics) and I am sure that it will still stand out and stand the test of time. That being said, I guess major problem these days is artist and story writers are being rushed to create new comics. I really never liked Lalit or Adil's artwork until I saw their sketches which were done slowly, methodically and not to mention beautifully. I think the major culprit is perhaps declining readership and hence sagging sales. I knew a lot of people who used to think that I am childish just because I read comics. Here in Australia people read comics openly if they want to an dnobody really bothers them.
So we have 2 way problem:
1. Few children from new generation are interested in reading comics. they will rather play Video games.
2. Children from older generation have become adults and as I mentioned before, it is not acceptable to read or purchase comics in public.

Even DC and Marvel are not free from their share of duds though. I was just reading DC's much touted Final Crisis yesterday only and trust me it is a pile of incomprehensible gibberish and a load of shit. Batman dies just for the heck of it. Most of the story didn't make any sense.

Raj comics is doing great job these days. They are giving new artists a chance and experimenting with new stories and trying to put fresh spin in the whole thing. But I still sincerely believe that Raj comics should listen to readers as to what they want. They should put on a poll and perhaps also read the story plots written by fans. Some of them are pretty nice ideas. All they need is development. They should reduce publishing characters which are less profitable and perhaps focus on major ones. A child has just limited pocket money. I am sure all the children have limited budget for purchasing comics out of limited pocket money. I am sure they will purchase Nagraj, Dhruva, Doga, Bankelal, Bhokal, THS, Kobi-Bheriya first and then go for other characters if he has money (This is what I would do - by no means I am trying to say that these are the people's choice). My argument is that focus on better, more original characters who sell and try to put best possible artwork and story for them. Others, well publish them once in a while for change of flavour and make them as guest characters.

Until next time.......

[ancient.orc@gmail.com]

hmmm...well i fully agree with Himdeep, just focus on major character's because we have limited pocket money.

[polly_dhruva]

In past, I read every character and comics. But now I read only Nagraj & Super Commando Dhruva. I drop other characters after my school because of two reasons. First, Comics store had closed in my locality. Second, the story line of other characters was not good enough to keep my interest on them. I have finished my school in 2004. At that time, RC made many two in one & multistarer puzzled comics. In those comics, nothing was special. Old villains was repeated a number of time in those comics. I did not like that concept. So I decided to spend my money, no need to say very limited, only on good comics. In Simple words, I decided to read only Dhruva & Nagraj. Now I have started to like Kobi & Bheriya again but due to the lack of comic’s shops and limited pocket money, I can't afford them.

[splendersm]

well i am saying about the quality of graphics in comics not in movies and the film about which i am talking is that one which you create in your mind by joining the various frames of comics its different matter from movies on screen. hence quality of graphics matters in case of your picturization of comic you got it...........


__________________________________


See This

[ancient.orc@gmail.com]

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http://www.liquidcomics.com/dead-soldier.html

[henrygrik]

Hi,
Whether the comics are western or Indian they never matter a lot, The thing that matter is specially story. If the comics are having the best story and the best graphics which is represented in the best way, then people will never look at the country it belongs to. People are more interested in Comics then their originating country.

[parijat]

Hi,
Whether the comics are western or Indian they never matter a lot, The thing that matter is specially story. If the comics are having the best story and the best graphics which is represented in the best way, then people will never look at the country it belongs to. People are more interested in Comics then their originating country.

I agree wid u 100%...

Comiocs are universal medium for entertainment..

[TRENDSTER]

Hi,
Whether the comics are western or Indian they never matter a lot, The thing that matter is specially story. If the comics are having the best story and the best graphics which is represented in the best way, then people will never look at the country it belongs to. People are more interested in Comics then their originating country.

Your point is right but marketing and product reach are also important factors. In past 50 years there are many wonderful Indian comics published under Indrajaal, Amar Chitra Katha, Raj Comics, etc both story and artwork wise but almost no one knows about them in India....forget about the rest of the world.

[Moorkh]

this is my first post and i might come off as a snob, but indian comics simply dont measure up to the ones we have outside.

comics such as tintin or asterix in the west for example , or even calvin and hobbes, these have a sense of humor which is much much better than the one presented by comics in india.

even when it comes to action comics we are nowhere close.

i am an avid reader of japanese manga. the stories there and the fleshing out of characters is simply amazing .

one weakness that i find in indian comics is that most of the time they stick to a limited number of superheroes and other characters. this might help the readers to feel comfortable with known characters. however this has the disadvantage that several times the villians start feeling generic.

the japanese model of creating story arcs gives several advantages in terms of creativity.

the model goes -
1) introduce a core group of characters and their world
2) give them an aim to work towards in the story
3)overcome the problem over several comics
4) reveal that the problem is not over yet and another bigger villian has to be defeated.
5) repeat steps 2 3 4 using the characters introduced during previous iterations(arcs) while the story has steam and then end the story in a graceful manner.

this allows for the keeping of central heroes/superheroes the readers like so much.
this also allows for a more consolidated storytelling
not telling the whole story in one go gives the reader an impentus to read the next issue
a longer story also means you can give out more details enriching the reading experience

japanese comics sometimes spend 3-4 issues just to introduce and flesh out a character

trying to study the progression of comics like "naruto" and "bleach" can be very instructive.


i believe that nagayan was a step in the right direction. a single story told over multiple issues.
it however might create problems in keeping a continuous characterization of the superheroes and characters.

the japanese model might not be easily compatible with superheroes as it ends the story and thus the character at some point.

we can try and overcome this problem by giving the superheroes guest appearances in other comic series.



nothing needs to live on for ever. not even our superheroes.

[parijat]

Suno moorkh (ab yahi tumhara username hai to main kya karun...just kidding..don't take seriously )

...kaafi baatein to tumne sahi kahi lekin indian comics industry is tarah ka model apnana allow nahi karti agar rc 3 issues tak kewal chracters ka parichay dete rahe to readers ahenge ki rc unka paisa barbaad kara rahi hai..

[polly_dhruva]

That's the point Parijat. Moorkh you are right at your place but you see, there is very big difference between Japan and India. People, over there, are crazy about comics. Kids and Adults both like comics there. They spend a good amount of money on comics. But in India, situation is quite different. Comics are considering a childish thing in India. Comics don't have a good image in people mind. It is a waste of time for them. They don't even take it as a mean of entertainment. Their mentalities don’t allow them to do so. If RC is still in the market then it is just because of their old fans that are emotionally attached to the comics. But they are also discontinuing comics because of the over extended series. They were used to read an adventure only in a single issue. Or in a series of maximum 2 & 3 comics. But now they are getting a series, consisting minimum 4 comics. They are not feeling comfortable with this. Price of comics is also much rose. Every one is suffered with the price of comic. So what I want to say that RC can't follow the Japanese way. I have mentioned all the reasons. Any one can easily understand them.

[TAKER]

not all the western comics are grt,sum series are jst worthless,even dc and marvel publish craps,but due to character names people buy them,its just because of proper promotion.
is mamle me rc bilkul 0 hai,prb jaisi series ka promotion hua but nagayan aur wts jaisi series ko bilkul neglect kiya gaya,ek do jagah interview dene se kuch nahi hota,bade level par promotion ki jaurat hai,abhi rc raj rajat warsh mana rahi hai,par iske bare me kitne readers ya fans ko pata hai??????kai regular readers ko bhi pata nahi hoga,so promotion is must,baki 10 ya 15 rs ke issues aane hi chahiye, ths bankeylal bheriya yoddha jaise characters ko 10-15 ke format me nikalna chhaiye taki log unhe bhi ek baar sasta hi jankar khareed le,koi bhi bankeylal ki kharab si comics nahi khareedega wo bhi tab jab wo rs 30 ki ho.but yahi comics agar 10-15 rs ki ho to ek baar log sochenge jarur.western comics chahe batman ki ho ya kisi new superhero ki,same format me milti hain,kam rates par milti hai.eg-gotham walo ne kafi businees kiya,10-15 rs ki karke unhone bahut comics bech li.promotion b kafi kiya,rc yahi maat khati hai,kai baar kahani achi hone se jada ye mayane rakhta hai ki kitne log us achi kahani ko afford kar sakte hain??????kitne logon ko uske bare me pata hai.pehle rc ko firse logon ki najro me aana hoga,ek baar log rc ko notice karenge to shayad unme comics padhne ka craze bhi badhe.shayad wo comics ki taraf attarct hon

[TRENDSTER]

Waise to Moorkh...kya yaar .....kay points valid hai. Polly nay kaha ki India ki conditions alag hai...alag to hai par kuch policies to universally kaam karti hai. Jaise Rahul nay kaha ki kum price segment se zyada readers tak RC pahunch sakti hai....aur jo naye readers kum price segment ki comics se impress honge wo fir baaki comics bhi padhenge.

[parijat]

well..ek cheez aur kahunga...western comics new readers ko aur badalte samay ko dhyan me rakh ke comics banati hai..jabki rc still follows the studpid code of morality and gives no weitage for new readers

[adraj]

Sahi kaha ja raha hai,pehli baat toh yeh hai ki Indian aur western comics industry may zameen aasmaan ka antar hai lekin yeh baat bhi nahi bhoolni chahiye ki ek samay tha jab isi Bharat may kareeb 20 crore comicses bika karti thi,samay badla,reders ki mentality badli,taste badla,culture may badlav aaya,dekne - padne ka nazariya badla,par comics industry ki menatality iske anuroop nahi badli,jiska natijaa yeh raha ki 90% comics industry bund ho gayi,jo bacchi hai,usmey bhi aadhey reprint karte hein,tau galti kahan hui???Galti yeh hui hai-aj marketing ka zamana hai,jab tak bologey nahi,bataogey nahi,tab tak kuch nahi bikega!!!!!yeh baat pata nahi RC kab samjhega.They should take example of Godrej,Onida and Videocon.Apne peak market may piche honey kay baad,naa sirf in logo nay wapsi ki balki nay nay segments may bhi apne aap ko introduce kar liya hai aur ab dobara fight kay liye tayaar hain,yahi baat RC Ko sochna chahiye!!!!"Bolney wale ka Dahi bhi bik jata hai aur nahi bloney wale ka Ghee bhi nahi bikta".Yeh baat RC ko samajhni chahiye aur jaldi samajhni chahiye!!!

[premchopra]

wah kya muda hai comics bechnaa hai ki dahi ? ya dahi comics par lagaa ke bhai ?
raj comics ko kuchh samjhne ki jaroorat nahi vo achha kar rahi hai ab tak tiki hai market me bhai issase jyada kya kare ? sadak par tokari me comics sajaa kar chilla chilla kar beche kya -ek aanaa ka nagraaj aur do paise ka dhruv ? hmmmm !

[polly_dhruva]

wah kya muda hai comics bechnaa hai ki dahi ? ya dahi comics par lagaa ke bhai ?
raj comics ko kuchh samjhne ki jaroorat nahi vo achha kar rahi hai ab tak tiki hai market me bhai issase jyada kya kare ? sadak par tokari me comics sajaa kar chilla chilla kar beche kya -ek aanaa ka nagraaj aur do paise ka dhruv ? hmmmm !

You just joined RC forum one day ago. I think you need to read all posts of this topic. We are not making fun here. We are dead serious about the loosing sale of RC. The sale of Raj Comics is getting less day by day. The first reason we found behind that it is poor marketing strategy. Promotion & Marketing keep a product live in market. Okay. I accept that RC has a good reputation in market. But, look at the world. It's changing. New comic houses are opening. They are introducing new things in comics. They are approaching to everywhere using every mean of media. RC needs to do the same things if it wants to be in the hunt. RC had done fabulous job in marketing & promoting comics between 1994 to 1999. At that time, RC introduced some innovative ideas like Green Page, Letter Column, Finest Five, etc to come closer to the readers. RC conquered the Heart of Readers. But now, circumstances have changed. RC needs to understand these changes. Adraj really wrote very true. Without marketing RC can't increase their sale. Can't get new readers.

And yes. What did you say? RC is doing good?
If you are a regular reader than no need to tell you that only 3 comics has released in the first three month of 2010. First time, RC gave us a set of 3 comics. Do you think 3 comics are good enough for readers? Do you think 3 comics are good for RC? They can earn awesome revenue from 3 comics? Definitely not, man. Today RC is in very critical position. This forum is a platform for us to give RC fair verdict so that RC can understand the problem. And we are trying our best to help RC.

[nagraj the king]

Lagta he premchopra bhai ko DAHI wala example samajh me nahi aaya hai,

and adraj & polly, mai aapki baat se poori tarah sehmat hu....

Ab rc ko agar apni popularity and readers badhane he to rc ko apna dhyaan cchote-cchote bachho par dena hoga... Jiss se ki rc ka naam fir se sabhi jaane,
aur jahir he new readers bade to honge nahi bachche hi honge..aur unnko lubhane ke liye rc ko cartoon channels ya fir NANDAN, NANHE-SAMRAAT, champak to shayad band ho gayi hai, jaisi kitaabo mai apna ad dena chahiye...

aage rc ki marzi!!!!!!!

[parijat]

The main reason behind the fall of comics market in India is that there is no quality. Both readers and publishers have no knowledge about what a comics really is. There is nothing for a new reader.

Now if you take a look at western market, comics companies like marvel and dc have left no stone unturned to attract new readers. Some examples are movies, animations, games, better quality of comics, new universes like ultimate and dc all star universe whose primary focus is on the new readers only.

Thus i conclude that publihsers should do something to bring new readers. They must adopt strategy to attract new readers, this is the gist.

Without new readers, no company can survive in the long run. The reason why Rc is alive even today is because during the boom of 1990's new readers kept on adding.

Take a look today. 3-4 comics in a set.......new readers will not be attracted if there is so much delays for only 3-4 comics.

Of course, we don't need to tell these things to Rc, they know it all...that's why they are alive today.....or rather they are declining...

[montydapunk.k]

yaar not even that the quality of Indian comics is so bad but i think it is there unprofessional and callous attitude that dedicates to the poor quality of Indian comics.I mean just look now at rc now it takes upto 2 months for them to release a new set of just 3 comics.With this it can not transform itself into the DC or Marvel of India .And not just rc but look at diamond comics those guys never do any hard work on the storyline of comics but keep on publishing their comics with the same old plain storylines.And worse i have never seen a Diamond comic with the name of it's inker, penciller,story writer etc given onto the front page and since the last 13 years i am seeing the biography of that guy pran on their front page. If some western comic reader gets notice of this he will laugh at this kind of unprofessional attitude. I think this two companies now are living in a fool's paradise where they think that continuing with these same old methods is gonna benefit them.Not just do they need to bring out new comics on time but they also need to increase their readership for which a thing known as promotion will help them.

[parijat]

i agree wid u..both quality and quantity needs attention..

[bunty98]

but the main reason is marketing.....i dont knoe y they are not doing it.....even anyone dont know about raj comics...do some marketing man....

all the post above are awsome.....true things said in it